It is easier, faster, cheaper and overall simpler to get someone setup with #XMPP + #OMEMO espechally if they don't have a #PhoneNumber and/or #ID to acquire a #SIM.

And if you go and say, "Just buy a [insert country here] [e]SIM!" and expect #TechIlliterates without a #CreditCard, #PayPal or other means of #OnlinePayment to fiddle around with some #eSIM if not having to get some #eSIMcard because they can only afford to maintain one SIM and can't spend triple-digits on a new devices then you completely missed the point!

I can much faster and easier get TechIlliterates setup show them around - either in a @cryptoparty@mastodon.earth / @cryptoparty@chaos.social / #CryptoParty - style #classroom / #seminar or 1:1 tutoring than I can legally acquire and activate a new SIM in #Germany [since 07/2017]...

It's not that I expect anyone to get #TechLiterate within minutes, but similar to setting up a cordless DECT phone it's something one has to do once in 5 years and just have them put the password in a safe spot to retain...

Point is that #Signal #WontFix their setup and that was evidently clear even before @Mer__edith succeeded #MoxieMarlinspike: Their entire operation has a distinct #CryptoAG stench as it's an #unsustainable #VCmoneyBurning party!

#CloudAct and the #NOBUS hegemony ain't something that just got executed now (neither was #GDPR & #BDSG!)...

A counterexample on how this could've been done are #Tor, #eMail and other truly #OpenSource as in #MultiVendor & #MultiProvider standards.

NOTHING compells Signal to demand PII, run a #Shitcoin #Scam aka. #MobileCoin that even seasoned #TechLiterates and #CryptoBros can't setup properly, and in fact Signal using phone numbers makes it trivial to discriminate against users and easier for them to identify them!
If my reasoning didn't resonate with you, then try helping i.e. undocumented migrants aka. "#SansPapier|s" to get setup with it without violating laws and/or ToS and/or needing an imported SIM which I'm shure most folks don't have on hand!

Whereas it's trivial to get people setup on one of many XMPP servers I've personally tested!

Not to mention clients like @monocles / #monoclesChat and @gajim / #gajim are way more user-friendly and unlike Signal can also work perfectly fine over #Tor, including #OnionServices as endpoints.

AFAIK Signal doesn't even have an #OnionService / .onion for their Website, much less any #API enpoints to use it with!

Them relying on #ClownFlare is just something that makes them even more #sus as there is no legitimate reason to use a #RogueISP like that.

You're free to also provide evidence and supporting data to your arguments, rather then neighsaying against proven to be more secure and reliable [by virtue of decentralization] options like XMPP+OMEMO and/or #PGP/MIME.

What gets my blood boiling is the constant #disinfo by Signal Fanboys like @rysiek who sell it like #DigitalSnakeoil akin to #AntivirusSoftware, because it's at best "#TechPopulism" and at worst will mislead "TechIlliterates" with a false sense of security, which in turn puts more users at risk.

The proper fix is to actually assess the situation and acknowledge the risks and limitations as well as the very nature of communications, which means upgrading later is exponentially more painful, thus getting people properly setup once is way easier.

Just because WE [ or rather @rysiek in this case ] rather privilegued enough to not be hatecrimed in their current location doesn't mean this is the case for everyone. And having places like Signal rely on a "#CDN" is just another red flag to me because questions like this one just don't arise with monocles.chat as people can just exercise proper #SelfCustody and just use Tor!

Speaking of #monocles: That business is at least #sustainable because it's funded by users (€2 p.m.) which they can pay anonymously

gruene.socialMax L. (@max@gruene.social)@kkarhan@infosec.space Sorry but no, the correct solution is to push for easy to use solutions that are at the same time private and secure. Hiding privacy and security behind a veil of "you need to know" is discrimination of people that are not able (either mentally, physically or monetary) to gain that knowledge. The correct move here is for @signalapp@mastodon.world and any other service to fix this and for legislators to enact laws enforcing proper security and privacy by design.

Replied in thread

**contrapunctus** @contrapunctus@en.osm.town · Jan 22 *

Jan 22 *

contrapunctus @contrapunctus@en.osm.town

@rysiek @kkarhan @agturcz An awful lot of people say they've used #XMPP "a while back". But they're often unaware of the best of XMPP, and have an unfairly negative view of it.

Did you happen to try...

...#Snikket for hosting?
https://snikket.org

...apps like #Quicksy and #Prav which use phone numbers for easy onboarding, same as #Signal #WhatsApp or #Telegram?
https://quicksy.im
https://prav.app

...featureful clients like #Cheogram #MonoclesChat #Gajim #Movim etc?

Snikket ChatSnikket ChatSnikket is a simple, secure and private messaging app

**Kevin Karhan** @kkarhan@infosec.space · Jan 22 *

Replied in thread

**Kevin Karhan** @kkarhan@infosec.space · Jan 21

Jan 21

Kevin Karhan @kkarhan@infosec.space

@moh_kohn except @signalapp too is a #centralized, #SingleVendir & #SingleProvider solution that fully falls under #CliudAct and thus CANNOT comply with #GDPR & #BDSG as a matter of principle since this digital rquivalent of #ExtraordinaryRendition is inherently incompatible!

Use #XMPP+#OMEMO & #PGP/MIME with #SelfCustody if all the #Keys for real #EndToEndEncryption that doesn't rely on a #VC #MoneyBurningParty.

@monocles / #monoclesChat, @gajim / #gajim & @delta / #deltaChat, @thunderbird / #Thunderbird do support that!

Replied in thread

**F3715H** @F3715H@noods.fun · Jan 18

Jan 18

F3715H @F3715H@noods.fun

@MartinaNeumayer @VixenBlu @thelusciouslibra Re: #eMail and #Chat, I'd still recommend to stick with #SelfCustody, and use @monocles #monoclesMail, #monoclesChat , @delta #deltaChat and many other options.

- One nifty option for #VideoTelephony one may want to look at is #WebCall:
https://timur.mobi/webcall/

I got pointed at it since it's very easy to use and unlike #JitsiMeet they don't demand #PII for registration or record stuff and one can #SelfHost it too...

Replied in thread

**Kevin Karhan** @kkarhan@infosec.space · Jan 5

Jan 5

Kevin Karhan @kkarhan@infosec.space

@zeank @MastoDenunzianten Auch sind all.dies #Merting-#Versprechen oder auch #Lügen, denn woher soll mensch verifizieren können, dass das was #Threeema behauptet auch stimmt?

Die werden mich das ja nicht persönlich an deren Servern abchecken lassen.

Bei #XMPP+#OMEMO (z.B. @monocles / #monoclesChat & @gajim / #Gajim) & #PGP/MIME (z.B @delta / #DeltaChat) kann ich im Zweifelsfalle #SelfHosting mit nem #RaspberryPi im Kleiderschrank machen.

Egal ob @threemaapp , @signalapp , @simplex , @WhatsApp oder #Pwnagotchi #PwnMail ja, das gibts auch gibt's #zentralisiert|e #Server und damit zentrale Angriffspunkte.

Angriffe auf dezentrale & offene, #MultiVendor & #MultiProvider-Standards funktionieren nicht skalierbar!

pwnagotchi.aiPwnagotchi - Deep Reinforcement Learning instrumenting bettercap for WiFi pwning. :: Usage

Replied in thread

**Kevin Karhan** @kkarhan@infosec.space · Jan 4 *

Jan 4 *

Kevin Karhan @kkarhan@infosec.space

@zdl @evacide that any the fact that @signalapp is incorportated in the #USA, making them susceptible to #GDPR & #BDSG-incompatible #cyberfacist bs like #CloudAct.

If #Signal cared, they'd completely #OpenSource #backend and #frontend as well as #decentralize and refuse to collect any #PII (like #PhoneNumers) at all!

Remember: #KYC IS THE ILLICIT ACTIVITY when it comes to #Communication!

To me Signal has a stench like #CryptoAG (aka. #MINERVA / #RUBIKON), #EncroChat and espechally #ANØM (aka. #OperationIronside / #OperationTrøjanShield)...

Compare that to @monocles / #monoclesChat which don't demand any PII or KYC and allow people to pay for their services with #Monero and #CashByMail besides #SEPA #WireTransfer, #Stripe & #PayPal whilst supporting both decentralization (#XMPP is not a #SingleVendor / #SingleProvider solution!), implementing real #SelfCustody (#OMEMO, #OTR & #PGP is supported out of the box) for all the keys, and proper #Anonymitiy (using @torproject / #Tor & @guardianproject #Orbot for #privacy), so in case they ever get a duely sumitted warrant by a court they'd have to comply with, they'll most likely have no data whatsoever on clients that could allow identification.

And that is a good thing, because whilst very unlikely, one cannot exclude the non-zero chance of i.e. #MLAT|s being filed with knowingly false information by 3rd countries.

Also having no PII is a matter of reducing #liability in the sense of #DataProtection: All data requested and by #monocles is the bare minimum mandated for #accounting (i.e. only linking a payment like a #TxID / Transaction-ID to an account and then adding up validity/activation period).

And since running a #Service costs money, the low #subscription to their #Services makes them independent from #ads, #crawling / #espionage against #customers and depending on #grants and #donations to keep the lights on, making it a #sustainable #business...

#service #subscription #services

**Kevin Karhan** @kkarhan@infosec.space · Dec 30, 2024 *

**Axel** @eversten@social.anoxinon.de · Dec 24, 2024 *

Dec 24, 2024 *

Axel @eversten@social.anoxinon.de

I just saw that #Conversations and #monocleschat seem to be currently available for free in the Google Play Store.
Thanks @daniel and @monocles for this great offer.

This might be a good chance to onboard Google Play users to #XMPP.

But do not forget: You can also use #fdroid or #Codeberg to get those apps.

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